3 flags advice

We have a serious problem and I need some input from people. Please only post if your legitimetly interested in helping our cause. We have to come up with a solution.

Quote :

Dear Gord:

We are having seriuos issues with hosting drifting events and unless we can find some solutions we will have no choice but to ban drifting from our facility.

Issues are:

1) wheel dropping off the pavement edge----this is resulting in huge displacement of the dirt at the track apron leaving the track unusable for kart racing and motorcycle racing as well as autoslalom. For kart racing the apron must be level with the track at all corner exits for at least 1 meter from the track edge. After the last drifting event we now have drop offs of 6 to 8 inches deep. This will have to be repaired before the ROK cup national qualifier event on the June 18th weekend,

2) dirt on the track....even though volunteers make an effort to remove the dirt dragged on by drifting it still requires 2-3 hours of power broom cleaning, $50 worth of deisel fuel and a new set of brooms at $450 per set each year to clean the track for karting and motorcycles. The drifting grinds the dirt into the track requiring multiple passes to clean it.

3) pavement damage....wheel dropping is causing car chassis to contact the pavement and grind away the edges. This can not be very good for the cars either I would think.

4) debris and oil on the track and infield....after the last 2 day event there was a significant amount of oil tracking and debris (fiberglass, screws, bolts) found on or near the track

5) excessive noise.... for the first time since operating the track we received complaints of noise after the 2 day drift camp. The constant squealing of tires is a problem for neighbours. The autoslalom is not a problem because for the most part they are street legal cars driven under control. Drifting is the opposite.

6) safety....the track does not have sufficient guard rails to protect spectators from an out of control car from going through the fence. From the driving and stunting I have seen going on down the back straight along the grandstand fence it is just a matter of time before someone is seriuosly hurt or killed. The cost to install guardrails to contain drifting would be in excess of $20g's. We are not prepared to do that.

There are other minor issues that can be dealt with we choose to allow drifting to continue. As it stands now if I had to hire track workers to repair the facility after drifting events we would be losing seriuos money. A few years ago, after we had resurfaced the track, the kart club came out as volunteers to relevel the track edges and they expect, and rightly so, to see a santionable track. I spend no time and money cleaning up after karting or motorcycle events.

What, if anything, can the QCMA suggest to address these issues and allow drifting to continue?

Sincerely,
South Sask. Motorsports Ltd.

IMO the dirt dropping (which obviously is one of the main issues) has gotten out of control. Remember last year when Niall was in charge and you got 1 shot before you were kicked off. It seemed like this year its more of a free for all. Dont get me wrong Soup, you run amazing events, but if it comes down to it the guidelines on what is allowed/ not allowed might need to be enforced more often.

The dirt/ debris on or around the track is also a matter of taking time after the event to thoroughly go around and legit clean the place up.

As for the fence/ stands, why not have drivers stage along that straightaway so they wont be drifting past there, reducing the risk of spectators being killed.

As for noise, I dont even know what to say about that besides the fact that there is a highway right there .

I dunno, these were just my thoughts on the situation, take what you want from it. Id really like to see drifting continue, and i feel if the above ideas are followed (mainly no more dirt dropping) the track owners might not be so upset.

bahrx7 wrote:

IMO the dirt dropping (which obviously is one of the main issues) has gotten out of control. Remember last year when Niall was in charge and you got 1 shot before you were kicked off. It seemed like this year its more of a free for all. Dont get me wrong Soup, you run amazing events, but if it comes down to it the guidelines on what is allowed/ not allowed might need to be enforced more often.

I guess this will have to be enforced more often. I don't recall Niall kicking people off the track for dirt dropping though. Maybe cause I've pushed all memories regarding him out of my head.

Quote :

The dirt/ debris on or around the track is also a matter of taking time after the event to thoroughly go around and legit clean the place up.

I do this. Last to leave the track by usually an hour because I'm out there sweeping

Quote :

As for the fence/ stands, why not have drivers stage along that straightaway so they wont be drifting past there, reducing the risk of spectators being killed.

Not a bad idea.

Quote :

I spend no time and money cleaning up after karting or motorcycle events.

Unless they clean up perfectly after themselves this is a lie. I was at a go-kart track outside of stoon and the track was so dirty and in poor poor condition with rubber all over the track. How can they spend no time cleaning up after it?


I agree with above about the placement of the cars and the dirt dropping, not coming from experience or anything but is anyone ever really trying to purposely dirt drop?


How do you recieve a noise complaint where they are located? The closest place is that which is across the road and quite far away. And as stated they live by a highway :s. Do the motorcycles not make noise?

1.Dirt dropping is pretty outrageous this year.
last event i saw everyone atleast 3+ times hit the dirt and continue to power through it, sometimes even both back wheels.
im actually surprised this was going on, i can understand if this was the drift-oree where 1 tire wouldve been fine and qualifying/podium position is on the line

but for practices- youre doing something very wrong if you end up off the course and still continue to try and save it. its practice, quit the run, line up, try again. ive always done this.

2. there wouldnt be much dirt dug into the surface if there wasnt people powering through a dirt drop. this also touches on clean up after

"I spend no time and money cleaning up after karting or motorcycle events." oh yeah?? autox??


3. this point is SUCH BS and this is the track owners responsibility.

"For kart racing the apron must be level with the track at all corner exits for at least 1 meter from the track edge. After the last drifting event we now have drop offs of 6 to 8 inches deep"
"pavement damage....wheel dropping is causing car chassis to contact the pavement and grind away the edges. This can not be very good for the cars either I would think."

first, there are MANY places on the track where the pavement drops off HARD. (the 6-8" said) These were always there, these are NOT from dirt dropping in drifting.
second, chassis' wouldnt be hitting the pavement if there was dirt there in the first place.

in fact, ive gone ahead and outlined areas on this layout.
the red in dirt which was missing in the first place, that are very deep, possible chassis drag also in these spots
blue is areas which are mostly flat still, but are damaged by drifting



4. Noise. Lets be realistic, there is a highway beside the track, where are these nieghbours? 2 km's away? This point shouldnt even be bothered with IMO. Bad mood on a bad day = complaints. didnt hear anything about the drift-oree...

5. safety. yeah cars do go through the fence. and as we have seen recently (no offense thai) drifting and stunting dont have to be the culprit for a car to go through a fence. we have seen a s2000 and a corvette doing tame autox go through the fence, but not a drift car. imo i beleive as a drifter you are more aware of what your car is already doing (out of control), as opposed to what could suddenly happen(tame autox)

6. oil and shit. Clean up after yourself fuck. clip a ziptie? throw it in the back of your car, or the MULTIPLE garbage bins that are next to the track.

I would love to find another venue. I think if anybody can think of another place to run that would be great.

I think the track has its place and is nice to have around but I feel like we are over staying our welcome. Some of the issues being discussed may not be able to resolved, yes people go off course. As weak driver myself I can say that I do not do that on purpose and I would hope I don't do too much damage to the track. However, if the track is really in rough shape couldn't more gravel be put down for a relatively cheap price?

The track is a good place and over all I have is positive things to say. However, I feel that somethings are in their hands to cover as the supplier of the venue and sometimes you need to put in to get more out of an investment.


They should just pave more of it and the problem would be solved.

Im getting so sick of the tracks attitude. I get that they have some issues that need to be taken care of... but fucking noise complaints? Its a fucking track... That is insulting. We have brought them so much revenue and positive advertising and then they treat us like these punks that they could care less about. And what is with all these new rules and shit? Its 3 Flags Kart Track... not Laguna Seca.... they need to step down from thier pedastal that doesn't even exist and look around and see that drifting brings more people to the track then any other sport they do there. Im sure the Kart racing is close to drifting, because people bring there families and such but still, like come on.

Time for a new venue. Period.

im going to agree with all of you. it seems as there extra picky with drifting. so i guess that means we are going to have to be extra picky. but like common noise complaints?

The noise complaints come from the farms across the grids. not from the track obviously.

Soup wrote:

The noise complaints come from the farms across the grids. not from the track obviously.

well obviously. maybe we should take the time to talk to the people that are close to the track?

Everyone is got a good point and im not really at all into doing anything for drifting like you guys but it seems that they are just coming up with dum excuses to try to get something out of you guys and us (ppl who pay to go see this). Ive always thought that another venue is the best place and i dont know why this is a concern just now. how much can you expect from that place where you dont seem to be very welcomed. im down for helping cleaning after everyone is done. all i want is seat time.. ha... if any help is needed ill help. the crappy part to is that it was rainny and i may have looked a little messier than what it was or it was left. maybe that trigger something. i dont think tho that the drift orginizers should take all the blame and that the owners should chime in and discuss what they are supposed to do to. Was there any contract or rules that said anything about dirt? sound? safety? this should be clarify and understood by both parties.

like someone said. bad day + bad mood = complaining... someone of their comaplings are just to add more to the pile and make someone feel bad. imo.
my.02

Last Saturday was my first time out drifting on the track and really didnt think the track was messed up at all when we left... Actually when i went on the track walk around tour it wasnt 100% clean even and the bikes were just on there.... so im not sure what the big deal is... But like i said im new out there so dont know all that much

the question that needs to be asked, does the track want our business ?

even if they do have an attitude, its their track. its privately owned. I was actually surprised they allowed you guys to hold events there in the first place, which is awesome (i still need to come out to one and check it out), but i was surprised. Imagine if i rented your back yard every weekend to hold a beer darts tournament. Wouldnt it kinda suck? Cant leave your house to hit up the beach, or go to another city etc because someone always has to be there? I think were pretty lucky we have a track here in the city.

lets say you did lose the 3 flags, where would you guys be able to hold events? Parking lot? Gay. I think you guys are kinda limited?

Fiorante wrote:

the question that needs to be asked, does the track want our business ?

i think they are asking just that. is revenue from your events outweighing the negative side effects from your events. How much do they charge you guys to hold an event?

raboyto2 wrote:

even if they do have an attitude, its their track. its privately owned. I was actually surprised they allowed you guys to hold events there in the first place, which is awesome (i still need to come out to one and check it out), but i was surprised. Imagine if i rented your back yard every weekend to hold a beer darts tournament. Wouldnt it kinda suck? Cant leave your house to hit up the beach, or go to another city etc because someone always has to be there? I think were pretty lucky we have a track here in the city.

lets say you did lose the 3 flags, where would you guys be able to hold events? Parking lot? Gay. I think you guys are kinda limited?

Fiorante wrote:

the question that needs to be asked, does the track want our business ?

i think they are asking just that. is revenue from your events outweighing the negative side effects from your events. How much do they charge you guys to hold an event?

BERT FOR MOD

raboyto2 wrote:

Wouldnt it kinda suck? Cant leave your house to hit up the beach, or go to another city etc because someone always has to be there? I think were pretty lucky we have a track here in the city.

except running the track is their business, i dont get to go to the beach either because i work too. i understand we are the most agressive out there and there are things that need to be reconciled but i find it hard to believe that someone complained about the noise at drift camp, it was lightning and POURING rain the first day, how could you hear anything? next day was like 90km winds...

Jex wrote:

except running the track is their business, i dont get to go to the beach either because i work too.

i dont think they are in it for the money. its not their source of income as im pretty sure they own a company in town? they bought the track because of their passion for kart racing. (father, mother and daughter all participate? ) . I think its nice that they are allowing other events to take place.

until i see how much we pay them for events, i dont think they are making much money out there. Probably covering costs and a little more.

like fixing the fence from last friday. that probably cost them at least 20$ to put back together.

(sorry... i had to. )

I get where Bert is coming from, but Jesse has a point. It is there job to some extent. I was thinking that a lot of those drops aren't caused by dirt drops but have been there for a while. I really don't care and arguing who causes them is pointless as we have already been tagged with its destruction. I really just want people to be able to drift somewhere, I don't really care where just as long as it is a decent venue.

Jordan's frustrated is warranted as we are customers. It is not as if they are doing us a favor by taking money out of our pocket to drive there.... it is a business transaction. Just a thought.

Thing is how long has another venue been talked about and still nothing? As shitty as it may seem, you gotta bend over backwards in order to keep doing some things you enjoy.

corey wrote:

Thing is how long has another venue been talked about and still nothing? As shitty as it may seem, you gotta bend over backwards in order to keep doing some things you enjoy.

This.

First that family is about karts. Understand that is their priority. Karts and Mini Roadracing (Motorcycles) do not damage a kart track at all. All cars do, not just drifters, but all full size cars damage that pavement. (and trust me as a motorcycle rider out there, cars are fucking up the pavement and making it very bumpy/rippled some corners at full lean are a smidge on the concering side)

Case in point: The Saskatoon Kart track does not allow full size cars on it, just Karts and Motorcycles, just for that very reason.

Personally I think it's great they have Auto-X and Drift events out there, where else would you go? But some of you guys are spouting stuff like "That's BS they are picking on us" But no it's not complete BS, it's not rocket science to see that Drift events are super hard on the track. Easily doing the most damage out of all venues. I'm actually a little surprised they let you even run them, and it looks like they themselves are now realizing how hard drifiting is on the track.

So what corey posted, is true. Sadly those of you that are serious about Drifitng, will have to bust your ass harder then the motorcycle, kart and Auto-X guys to keep being allowed to use that track. Maybe it's not fair, but it's the way it is.

I wouldn't pull the "do they want our revenue card", everybody else is having a hard time getting track time out there, if they pulled the drift events I'm sure others would snatch those time slots up. And again remember that family is first about Kart racing, that track is their for us as a side effect of their hobby. If you're gonna mess up their track for their karting they aren't going to let use it. It's just that simple.

The drift guys are going to have come up with some hard fast rules about haging tires out there. Roto-tiling not optional, the garden is that a way ------------>

Totally agree about the BS noise thing, it is a race track after all. But then again they have DB limits at tracks in the states and all over Europe....so you never know. I think that's the least of the concerns and most likely won't be a problem in the future.

Im thinking the money they get right now might not be enough in the long run and they are realizing it. The cost of drifting, in their eyes, should be substancially more since the most damage is being done. There is a possibility they are looking it at like this, sure they are making more money but is it worth having to repave and landscape a few years down the road. Im no contractor but im sure concrete/asphalt/whatever aint cheap.

/my 2 cents

I don't see any reason why QCMA and 3 Flags shouldn't be able to come to an agreement, and make it work.

What would be nice would be Concrete aprons, it would be easier on the cars. the grinding a chassis on the pavement edge can't be too nice. But that's a pipe dream, and very expensive! I think the Drift camp concerns might be getting carried away too, I mean it was awfully wet the last few months, and it was raining that day. It probably didn't take much to dig down deep into that dirt.

If it was late August, after 2 months of +25 weather, that dirt would have been rock hard!

I sincerely hope a resolution to this problem is found very quickly.

The Qcma exec is working with the track on behalf of its members to ensure drifting can continue. 5 of the 6 or so concerns are solved unequivocally by keeping wheels ON the track - simple as that.

The noise concern is pressure from neighbours talking with the RM. (if successful, will mark yet another place in SK and Regina that motorsports are not welcome.) we are hopeful this will not happen.

Respect for the track and its owners and their property/facility are the main concerns. We have no entitlement here, we may pay for the use of the facility, and that makes us customers - but I can respect their concern to not rent to someone THEY feel abuses them or their property.

Was anyone warned about these issues in advance? Not to my knowledge. Ryan has done a great job trying to make sure everything is ran well and cleaned up after - and was NOT asked to come clean up after the drift camp.

So, where are we now? We keep wheels on the track. Our heads down and a respectful "yes sir, yes ma'am" and THANK YOU for the use of their facility. And try to mend a tarnished relationship.

Everyone needs to see that this track is a privilege and not a right to use. As many have said before the family is heavily involved in kart racing and in such have bought the track for just that KART RACING. also as an autox driver i can say the friday after drift camp the track edge was absolutely DESTROYED, We're talking like 6 inch drops off the pavement at points, Also seeing as no one was asked to come out to the track to clean up after drift camp i do believe the owners would think of something along the lines of when you leave make it look as close to or the same as when you set foot on the track. None of that was done. When autox leaves the track they do a once around the track with the brooms to clean anything they can off the track whether we used that part of the track or not.


With everyone bitching about how they dont want our money and stuff like that, they dont make overly much on rental of the track for the hours we use it ( drifitng and autox) they make their money on concession and pit passes.


I'd hate to see drifting get banned over the fact that people abused the track and disrespected the owners of the track. i mean really whats an extra half hour after your done drifting to go around with a couple brooms and a couple shovels and filling in the voids/drops that were created, or sweeping the dirt off the track.


thats all for my rant for now

Ugh... The drifters do clean up after and after drift camp many of the drifters worked their asses off to clean that track. As well many others asked if they should come back and clean.

Maybe adrian drives machine time machine because I remember him getting hung up before all the dirt drops. The only explanation is that he traveled back and in time and wrecked the track before we used.

You are right there are six inch drops off of many corners... Lots that we don't even use.

Maybe the track is a priviledge and maybe to so is quiznos. As I give them money and they give me sandwichs.
Qcma pays for service and every member of that group is respectful even if they are the drifting members.

The last post offends me on several levels. I can respect the poster's relstioship with the track but it lacks perspective. Also the track is not performing charity by letting people drive they are running a business and I find it hard to believe that they do not profiting from their relationships with other clubs.

I like the track and respect the owners but I feel that all too often the drifters become a scape goat.

Believe me we are tame compared to what I saw this weekend in calgary and race city hasn't asked their drifters to fill pot holes.

This is
Ryan "1eightySX' not golks and I am pretty drunk not aiming to cause a shit storm or speeking for any organization but as a customer.