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240sxy
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   August 31st 2011, 3:02 pm

i still dont understand why you cant just sell these and get 440's instead of using bandaid tuning.
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Heretic
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   August 31st 2011, 3:04 pm

Did you create a base map yourself or did you grab one of the internet and go from there?

Just take the injectors sizes and to a percentage of. Like if your map was for 440cc injectors and your are running 650cc, they are 47% bigger so trim out 47% of your pulse width. If your wideband is in, go drive. Can you log the AFRs vs RPM, or just AFR vs time? Or do you have to manually watch it. Just keep an eye on it.

Sometimes simple math like this doesn't work like in application dealing with flow, when people talk about how much more will a 2.5" pipe flow over a 2" pipe, because of area etc. But injectors are measured in fluid flow per minute. So this is exactly how it works with them.
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Heretic
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   August 31st 2011, 3:09 pm

Does Hondata do 3D drag and drop fuel curves? So you can trim the fuel out of multiple RPMs and Throttle postion all at once? Or is done cell by cell?


Can't say I've even seen a Hondata screen shot. But with some of the older SDS sytems I've played with, this can be a real painful operation.


Last edited by Heretic on August 31st 2011, 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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240sxy
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   August 31st 2011, 3:10 pm

Heretic wrote:
Just take the injectors sizes and to a percentage of. Like if your map was for 440cc injectors and your are running 650cc, they are 47% bigger so trim out 47% of your pulse width. If your wideband is in, go drive. Can you log the AFRs vs RPM, or just AFR vs time? Or do you have to manually watch it. Just keep an eye on it.
.

usually the injectors are already calculated to a % of the stock sizing. so it wont be 47%, not only that, but if it was preloaded for 440's and hes using a different injector altogether, the m/s will be out too.
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Heretic
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   August 31st 2011, 3:16 pm

So your saying his fuel map is based off the stock injector size? So then it has pulse width pulled out to allow for bigger then stock ones?

and so now the percentage he needs will be based of that number?

What base map is this and where did it come from? If it's set for stock injectors what is that on a B series? like 240cc I would think for a LS/Vtec you would just run a slightly modified GSR map. Maybe a little more fuel, a little less ignition advance for the higher compression?
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240sxy
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   August 31st 2011, 3:37 pm

im not familiar with his map personally.

but youre looking at 2 different corrections being needed, injector correction and latency correction. it seems as though youre confusing the two and mashing them into 1 formula together. if corrections were made on pulse width alone, there would be no need for larger injectors

i was speaking about the actual injector correction first, then talking about latency correction for his injectors. im sure cam is a smart enough guy to have changed both of these settings.

but even still, if the ecu came preloaded, or he recieved a map with a 440cc map, it will still need some major overhaul to the map if hes using 650 now. either way the formula would be old injector/new injector x100 for new %. not 440/650 x100 as that is a correction% on a correction %

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Heretic
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   August 31st 2011, 3:48 pm

Assuming the Latency part is already done for his injectors, just talking sizing. I'm pretty sure Hondata has a simple little box for entering injector dead time per/voltage. I was just talking

And yeah I did the injector math backwards there. Embarassed

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240sxy
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   August 31st 2011, 4:01 pm

Heretic wrote:
Assuming the Latency part is already done for his injectors, just talking sizing. I'm pretty sure Hondata has a simple little box for entering injector dead time per/voltage. I was just talking

And yeah I did the injector math backwards there. Embarassed


ha im sure there is a simple box and it would do the calculation for you since its for a honda.
im surprised this whole thing isnt bolt on-bolt off Laughing
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Marshal.
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   August 31st 2011, 6:55 pm

240sxy wrote:
yeah
but in the end, was the money you saved worth the headache yet?


He should have done the thing that would have saved him tons of money, and headache.
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Bjohnson
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   September 1st 2011, 10:03 am

Just go buy some DSM 440's and wire them in, they're cheap. Van Woert did it to his civic and they worked great.
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Moneypits
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   September 1st 2011, 10:06 am

The map I have is for 650cc injectors, hondata has a screen where you enter in stock fuel pressure and injector size and then enter in your new fuel pressure and injector size and its supposed to automatically calculate but i dont think this automatic feature is working properly cause it sure doesnt seem to be working hence why im looking at entering it all in manually.

I contacted whom i got the basemap and ecu from Phearable but hes not really been much help other than hell take a look if I pay for his $200 + 80$ for every extra hour E-Tuning which is not something im interested in paying for if i can figure it out myself.

If you could refresh me again on the calculation I will try and provide some screen shots of the fuel trim page in hondata to better explain

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

theres the fuel trim page


Last edited by Moneypits on September 1st 2011, 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   September 1st 2011, 10:07 am

Bjohnson wrote:
Just go buy some DSM 440's and wire them in, they're cheap. Van Woert did it to his civic and they worked great.

Im not rehacking for a resistor box etc etc my wiring is fucked enough
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   September 1st 2011, 5:22 pm

FWIW, I would enter your injector size, latencies, fuel pressure, and whatever else it asks for then manually edit your fuel table. Automatic tuning doesnt seem to ever work and with a wideband and some patience you can make your idle/ cruise areas exactly where you want them every time.
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Moneypits
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PostSubject: Re: Help and Advice from the Car Buffs   September 1st 2011, 6:43 pm

bahrx7 wrote:
FWIW, I would enter your injector size, latencies, fuel pressure, and whatever else it asks for then manually edit your fuel table. Automatic tuning doesnt seem to ever work and with a wideband and some patience you can make your idle/ cruise areas exactly where you want them every time.

you free sometime to take a quick look ? You have some more expeiernce with this than i do
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